Chuck and Karen finish up their episode on Presidents and special investigations. Chuck makes Karen want to scream. Which is nothing new.

Chuck plays Karen’s new game and they both go through some of history’s presidential special investigations and laugh at the interesting names within. Because they are basically twelve. And cannot stop giggling over the word heinie.

Chuck and Karen learn a bit about North Korea and go over the timeline of US/North Korea relations. They also talk about the cult of personality (something Chuck is quite familiar with). Chuck gets the last word in and irritates Karen. A lot.

Chuck and Karen go into the history of executive action and the nuances between different types of orders, especially emergency declarations. They discuss President Trump's Emergency Declaration.They also decide whether or not the President can be compared to whipped cream. Karen gets fired up, Chuck is astounded (again) to learn Karen was born in the hospital Harry Truman died in.

Chuck and Karen get a little serious and talk about the important reason they changed the name of the show. Karen admits she is wrong and Chuck admits he is biased.

Karen gets Chuck excited by telling him the show is going to be about turnovers. When he realizes it is not the flaky pastry but Trump she is talking about, he gets sad.  

Chuck and Karen discuss the evolution of the State of the Union address, the hospital Karen was born in, and of course, Johnson. 

Karen and Chuck discuss government shutdowns, past, present. Why this one is different and potential consequences.


Chuck and Karen reflect on their favorite and least favorite episodes and their podcast journey through the year and make a couple of big announcements.

Marley’s Chains

Karen and Chuck discuss Christmas stories, political regret and how guilt can be good.  And what matters most.  

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